Counterpoint: the Greek Revolution set off a century of violence and genocide that ended with the devastating Population Exchange of 1923. (The nation of Greece remains a rump of the vast Greek footprint because of the nationalism it birthed.) A culture that had been integral to the rule of emperors from Alexander to Abdülmecid became a backwater and pawn of Britain and Russia.
That’s an interesting take and definitely highlights the messy reality of http://nation-building.You're right that the Great Powers played Greece like a chessboard, and the 1923 population exchange was a massive tragedy, a devastating conclusion to the Megali Idea. But blaming the Greek Revolution for a century of violence feels pretty narrow. It ignores the broader, inevitable collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the global shift toward nation-states. Also, saying Greeks were 'integral' to the empire kind of romanticizes things a bit. This might have been true for the elites in Constantinople, but it certainly wasn't the reality for the average person living under Ottoman rule. Any average person that wasn't a Muslim.
I live in Izmir, which was home to one the largest Greek populations in the world before the exchange, and I am fascinated by both cultures. Christian Greeks and Armenians were integral, I believe. They were, in general, more educated than a populace that was nearly 80% illiterate: The doctors, pharmacists and operators of key businesses. That's what i mean by integral.
You make a very fair point regarding the urban centers. In cosmopolitan hubs like Smyrna and Constantinople, the Greek and Armenian populations were indeed vital to the economy, medicine, and trade. They formed a highly educated professional class that kept the empire's commerce running smoothly, and in that sense, they were absolutely integral.
My pushback was more about the broader, empire-wide population. The experience of those prosperous urban professionals was worlds apart from the average Greek or Armenian peasant in the provinces. The rural majority still had to deal with the heavy taxation, social restrictions, and inherent inequalities of the millet system. So while you are completely right about their indispensable economic and professional role in the cities, the political and social reality for the vast majority of the population was still much harsher.
Having said that, your narrative reminds me of the Ottoman officials' letters of the time, in which they can't believe how ungrateful the Greek rayas were, for having the audacity to rebel against their "father" the Sultan. :) It seems that sometimes being prosperous economically and an integral part of the state is not enough. Imagine that!
However, it’s important to distinguish between today’s nationalism and the national-liberal movements that emerged in Europe after the French Revolution, that were rooted in the principle of self-determination. The Greek Revolution of 1821 was a defining moment in this wave of resistance against authoritarian empires and outdated regimes. It’s no coincidence that the Greeks were among the first to rise up, inspiring others across Europe and beyond.
While I share your concerns about the dangers of nationalism in its modern form, I also believe that presentism can often lead us astray. The struggles of the 19th century in Greece, Serbia, Italy, Poland, Belgium and elsewhere, were mostly about liberation, democracy, and the right of nations to determine their own futures. These ideals, though imperfectly realized, remain a powerful legacy worth remembering.
I lived in Ypsilanti, MI for five years, named after our friend above. Great article ~
Alexander Ypsilantis the Elder (1725–1805) was a Phanariot Greek prince who served as governor (hospodar) of Wallachia and Moldavia under Ottoman suzerainty, and was involved in early Greek nationalist intrigue.
Alexander Ypsilantis the Younger (1792–1828) is the more historically significant one. He was a general in the Russian Imperial Army who lost his right arm fighting Napoleon, and became the leader of the Filiki Eteria (Society of Friends), the secret revolutionary organization plotting Greek independence from the Ottomans.
I remember having Beaton’s book as background when I did Cavafy and Severis.
I did a few follow on history and literature courses a few years ago. Remember reading the national anthem in Greek, going and visiting Solomos’ statue and tomb in Zakynthos. Very atmospheric. Probably had more thoughts at the time, but the catalyst for 1821 would be good to be reminded about, given that nearly 400 years had gone by since 1453. Seem to remember being taught the French Revolution was an inspiration (of course my British history teacher connected that with the English Civil wars as the inspiration before that too, though I remember the syllabus skirting over the civil war briefly even though it is one of the most interesting periods of British history. Was obsessed with that one for a bit. Keeps coming up now the monarchy are on such thin ice. Curious to know if there’s any evidence of that civil war inspiring people in Greece - and their reactions in the 1640s onwards too.
While the French Revolution provided a vital ideological spark, the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence were actually massive inspirations too, something I point out in my piece "American Declaration of Independence and the Greek Revolution of 1821". This transatlantic influence, combined with a rising Greek diaspora and the secret society (Philiki Etaireia), ultimately organized the revolt. See more in my piece "Lightning the Fuse" and the rest of the pieces culminating to the assassination of Kapodistrias.
As for the English Civil War in the 1640s, it’s a fascinating thought, but there's no historical evidence that it inspired Greeks at the time. Back then, the Greek population was largely cut off from Western political discourse and caught in the middle of the Veneto-Ottoman Wars. Their daily reality was about sheer survival, so I can't think how English debates over parliament versus monarchy could have reached or resonated with the Greeks at the time. I'll be more than thrilled to find any connection though.
So interesting! I never knew before reading the above that it was the Greek national revival that directly inspired the "Croatian national revival" of the mid-19th century, but this looks uncannily similar! (We only gained a separate Croatian administration within the Habsburg monarchy, after many centuries, as a hard-bargained reward for staying loyal throughout the tumult of 1848...did not exactly endear us to our more revolutionary-minded neighbors, though!)
Also, during said Revival, we had our very own self-Croatianized Greek as one of our own national revival's most prominent figures. Demetrios Demetriou, a scion of a wealthy Greek merchant family, self-Croatianized into Dimitrije Demeter. Almost exactly like an inverted Kapodistrias!
Oh, I've never heard of him. Now I MUST look him up!
To be fair though, the Serbs had already risen twice, but it was during the Napoleonic Wars so it was a bad timing for nationalistic movements. They did gain somewhat of an autonomy within the Ottoman Empire though.
Thank you for this excellent and deeply researched piece on the 1821 Greek Revolution.
It really brings home how that struggle for independence set the stage for everything that followed in Greek history.
My grandfather Jean Kossarides fought in the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, the final campaigns that liberated the remaining Greek territories from Ottoman rule. His service was part of the long arc that began in 1821 and continued through the wars that finally completed the vision of a free Greece.
These stories of resilience and national identity mean a great deal to our family. Appreciate you telling them so well.
I’m glad the piece resonated with you too. My grandfather’s service in the Balkan Wars was the final chapter of that long fight for freedom that started in 1821, and hearing stories like yours makes it feel even more real.
Your grandparents’ journey to Macedonia in 1924 after the population exchange must have been incredibly hard. So many Greek families carry those same threads of resilience and loss. It’s what keeps me digging through the old trunks and sharing these stories.
We definitely all have our fair share, and I’m grateful you’re telling them so well. Looking forward to reading more from you.
I have always been a Beaton fan! An informative read about how one nation's actions can inspire the world
Roderick Beaton's fans, unite!
What makes the Greek Revolution so striking is that it wasn’t just about independence—it redefined what independence meant.
It turned identity into a political force and showed that nations could be imagined into existence—and then fought for.
Well said!
Counterpoint: the Greek Revolution set off a century of violence and genocide that ended with the devastating Population Exchange of 1923. (The nation of Greece remains a rump of the vast Greek footprint because of the nationalism it birthed.) A culture that had been integral to the rule of emperors from Alexander to Abdülmecid became a backwater and pawn of Britain and Russia.
That’s an interesting take and definitely highlights the messy reality of http://nation-building.You're right that the Great Powers played Greece like a chessboard, and the 1923 population exchange was a massive tragedy, a devastating conclusion to the Megali Idea. But blaming the Greek Revolution for a century of violence feels pretty narrow. It ignores the broader, inevitable collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the global shift toward nation-states. Also, saying Greeks were 'integral' to the empire kind of romanticizes things a bit. This might have been true for the elites in Constantinople, but it certainly wasn't the reality for the average person living under Ottoman rule. Any average person that wasn't a Muslim.
I live in Izmir, which was home to one the largest Greek populations in the world before the exchange, and I am fascinated by both cultures. Christian Greeks and Armenians were integral, I believe. They were, in general, more educated than a populace that was nearly 80% illiterate: The doctors, pharmacists and operators of key businesses. That's what i mean by integral.
You make a very fair point regarding the urban centers. In cosmopolitan hubs like Smyrna and Constantinople, the Greek and Armenian populations were indeed vital to the economy, medicine, and trade. They formed a highly educated professional class that kept the empire's commerce running smoothly, and in that sense, they were absolutely integral.
My pushback was more about the broader, empire-wide population. The experience of those prosperous urban professionals was worlds apart from the average Greek or Armenian peasant in the provinces. The rural majority still had to deal with the heavy taxation, social restrictions, and inherent inequalities of the millet system. So while you are completely right about their indispensable economic and professional role in the cities, the political and social reality for the vast majority of the population was still much harsher.
Having said that, your narrative reminds me of the Ottoman officials' letters of the time, in which they can't believe how ungrateful the Greek rayas were, for having the audacity to rebel against their "father" the Sultan. :) It seems that sometimes being prosperous economically and an integral part of the state is not enough. Imagine that!
Nationalism is a disease that makes the free feel chained and the wealthy feel poor. Look no further than today's United States to see this.
James, I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment.
However, it’s important to distinguish between today’s nationalism and the national-liberal movements that emerged in Europe after the French Revolution, that were rooted in the principle of self-determination. The Greek Revolution of 1821 was a defining moment in this wave of resistance against authoritarian empires and outdated regimes. It’s no coincidence that the Greeks were among the first to rise up, inspiring others across Europe and beyond.
While I share your concerns about the dangers of nationalism in its modern form, I also believe that presentism can often lead us astray. The struggles of the 19th century in Greece, Serbia, Italy, Poland, Belgium and elsewhere, were mostly about liberation, democracy, and the right of nations to determine their own futures. These ideals, though imperfectly realized, remain a powerful legacy worth remembering.
I lived in Ypsilanti, MI for five years, named after our friend above. Great article ~
Alexander Ypsilantis the Elder (1725–1805) was a Phanariot Greek prince who served as governor (hospodar) of Wallachia and Moldavia under Ottoman suzerainty, and was involved in early Greek nationalist intrigue.
Alexander Ypsilantis the Younger (1792–1828) is the more historically significant one. He was a general in the Russian Imperial Army who lost his right arm fighting Napoleon, and became the leader of the Filiki Eteria (Society of Friends), the secret revolutionary organization plotting Greek independence from the Ottomans.
That's so cool! I've written about Ypsilanti a few months ago!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ypsilanti_Water_Tower
Oh, my… 🫣
I remember having Beaton’s book as background when I did Cavafy and Severis.
I did a few follow on history and literature courses a few years ago. Remember reading the national anthem in Greek, going and visiting Solomos’ statue and tomb in Zakynthos. Very atmospheric. Probably had more thoughts at the time, but the catalyst for 1821 would be good to be reminded about, given that nearly 400 years had gone by since 1453. Seem to remember being taught the French Revolution was an inspiration (of course my British history teacher connected that with the English Civil wars as the inspiration before that too, though I remember the syllabus skirting over the civil war briefly even though it is one of the most interesting periods of British history. Was obsessed with that one for a bit. Keeps coming up now the monarchy are on such thin ice. Curious to know if there’s any evidence of that civil war inspiring people in Greece - and their reactions in the 1640s onwards too.
While the French Revolution provided a vital ideological spark, the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence were actually massive inspirations too, something I point out in my piece "American Declaration of Independence and the Greek Revolution of 1821". This transatlantic influence, combined with a rising Greek diaspora and the secret society (Philiki Etaireia), ultimately organized the revolt. See more in my piece "Lightning the Fuse" and the rest of the pieces culminating to the assassination of Kapodistrias.
As for the English Civil War in the 1640s, it’s a fascinating thought, but there's no historical evidence that it inspired Greeks at the time. Back then, the Greek population was largely cut off from Western political discourse and caught in the middle of the Veneto-Ottoman Wars. Their daily reality was about sheer survival, so I can't think how English debates over parliament versus monarchy could have reached or resonated with the Greeks at the time. I'll be more than thrilled to find any connection though.
So interesting! I never knew before reading the above that it was the Greek national revival that directly inspired the "Croatian national revival" of the mid-19th century, but this looks uncannily similar! (We only gained a separate Croatian administration within the Habsburg monarchy, after many centuries, as a hard-bargained reward for staying loyal throughout the tumult of 1848...did not exactly endear us to our more revolutionary-minded neighbors, though!)
Also, during said Revival, we had our very own self-Croatianized Greek as one of our own national revival's most prominent figures. Demetrios Demetriou, a scion of a wealthy Greek merchant family, self-Croatianized into Dimitrije Demeter. Almost exactly like an inverted Kapodistrias!
Oh, I've never heard of him. Now I MUST look him up!
To be fair though, the Serbs had already risen twice, but it was during the Napoleonic Wars so it was a bad timing for nationalistic movements. They did gain somewhat of an autonomy within the Ottoman Empire though.
Thank you for this excellent and deeply researched piece on the 1821 Greek Revolution.
It really brings home how that struggle for independence set the stage for everything that followed in Greek history.
My grandfather Jean Kossarides fought in the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, the final campaigns that liberated the remaining Greek territories from Ottoman rule. His service was part of the long arc that began in 1821 and continued through the wars that finally completed the vision of a free Greece.
These stories of resilience and national identity mean a great deal to our family. Appreciate you telling them so well.
I'm glad you enjoyed it and that it resonated with you, Desirée! You should be proud of your grandfather. We should all be!
My grandparents came to Macedonia in 1924 after the exchange population program, so we all have our fair share of stories to share.
Lest we forget!
Thank you so much! That really means a lot.
I’m glad the piece resonated with you too. My grandfather’s service in the Balkan Wars was the final chapter of that long fight for freedom that started in 1821, and hearing stories like yours makes it feel even more real.
Your grandparents’ journey to Macedonia in 1924 after the population exchange must have been incredibly hard. So many Greek families carry those same threads of resilience and loss. It’s what keeps me digging through the old trunks and sharing these stories.
We definitely all have our fair share, and I’m grateful you’re telling them so well. Looking forward to reading more from you.